FEATURED IN THIS ISSUE
1. AN EXCLUSIVE Q&A WITH BLACK 47's LARRY KIRWAN
2. CALENDAR OF EVENTS
This Week at The Stone Pony: Black 47 (Friday), Liquid Soul (Saturday), Marah (Sunday).
New on The Stone Pony Calendar: Asbury Park Rising: The Concert (with Highway 9) (Free! July 30), Thunderfest 2002 Big Brothers-Big Sisters Benefit (August 4)
1847, the worst year of the Irish potato famine, defined the Irish collective consciousness. As a people, they endured a mass immigration to the United States, unwelcome by the nation they helped build. The battle for Northern Ireland has been a political and religious scar in the hearts and mind of the Irish throughout that conflict with the United Kingdom. The politics, passions, hopes and independence which define that experience are personified in Black 47, born in the Irish bars of New York City and long-since transcending the risk of just being another bar band. Over 2000 shows, ten albums and many great stories later, Black 47 has become a symbol of many things: great music, political awareness, Irish resistance, New York City and social ideals. Listening to their music is to be exposed to all of these wonderful concepts, filled with insightful lyrics and an urge to think, even if you don't agree. The newsletter found time with Black 47's singer, guitarist and guiding force, Larry Kirwan, for an introduction to the band, his political, creative and musical muses and the story so far.
The Stone Pony: For fans who might not be familiar with Black 47, would it be fair to describe the band as an Irish version of The Clash? The band certainly has a political element to its music, draws from an extremely eclectic mixture of music influences, and doesn’t mind a little confrontation. Your web site includes a section of “political news” and information about various causes. Does having something to say contribute to the energy in your music and is your goal to make Black 47 “a band that matters”?
Larry Kirwan: Well, the Clash comparisons are very flattering to me and there are particular elements from which both bands draw. In fact, Joe Strummer was at a number of our early gigs and, oddly enough, since you ask about Wetlands later, he was instrumental in getting us our first gig there. The politics is a natural place to start. Both bands have a left-of-center stance on matters. Ours is also focused quite strongly on Irish and Irish-American affairs. Both Chris Byrne (founder member) and I came from political backgrounds, so it was natural that politics would be a crucial element in the band's makeup. In fact, when we met in 1989 and began talking about music, the absence of the Clash from music was one of the first things we talked about. And again, there were other similar interests between the Clash and Black 47 - a detestation of Mrs. Thatcher, an interest in Bobby Fuller (we both covered "I Fought The Law" and Black 47 did "Who Killed Bobby Fuller?") and an interest in really revving up an audience. I'm glad to see that Joe is back in the saddle again with a great band and that my old friend Tymon Dogg is playing with him.
The Stone Pony: While your time with Black 47 is well-documented, there isn’t a great deal of information about your early life and your introduction to music. Can you briefly share with our readers where you were born, some of your early musical influences, and how you developed your political activism?
LK: I was born in Wexford, a small town on the South-East corner of Ireland. A
strange little place with a big personality. It was somewhat cut off from
the rest of Ireland and looked outwards - being an old sea-port. It had a
very historic past and, to my mind, the very stones on the streets leaked
history. My father was a merchant marine and brought home 78s of calypso
and tango music from the Caribbean and South America. My mother had an
interest in Italian opera. As regards Irish music, Wexford wasn't a big
"jigs and reels" area but it did have a "sean-nos" tradition (which loosely
translates into "the old song"). History was recorded orally by the people
in the form of long songs which could be up to 30 verses. With Black 47, I
later attempted to incorporate this form in some of our story songs. As a
boy, though, I was caught up in the whole Beatles, Stones, Kinks, Motown and
soul movements. It was a very eclectic musical upbringing and one which
would be hard to duplicate today.
As regards politics, being Irish is being political, I felt. My grandfather
was a very strong Republican activist. He had been recruited into the IRB
by Sean McDermott (executed by the British in 1916). As a youth, I became
influenced by the writings and life of James Connolly and various
international revolutionaries. I've tried to incorporate some of those
influences into songs - but not in a preachy manner - to wake up the youth
and make them think. They don't have to think like me - in fact, if I can
even get them to think enough to disagree, then I'll have done what I set
out to do.
The Stone Pony: Prior to the formation of Black 47, you spent four years in the
theatre, work which includes your published plays, “Mad Angles”. Did
your time writing, producing and directing for the stage influence your
writing and performance as a musician? Is the creative process, by
which you take an idea and develop it into a play or song to be
performed, different for you or a similar process regardless of the
medium?
LK: Yes, working in the theatre dramatically changed the way I wrote. But, until we began doing interviews about Black 47's creative process around 1991, I had no idea that my style of writing had changed. When Black 47 formed we were playing four sets a night in Irish bars and I was resolved that most of the material would be original. So, for the first couple of years, I was churning out songs. Later, because of interviewers pointing it out, I realized that I was using characters in lots of the songs and using my own experiences as a raw material for songs. In a play, you place great importance on characterization. Your characters must be absolutely believable for two hours or thereabouts - one slip and the play is all over. I brought some of that discipline into the writing of songs for Black 47. The song form is different than the play form, but as I was doing both (and continue to do both) at the same time, there has been a certain amount of overlapping. I recently completed a novel (adapted from one of my plays), so that was taking the cross-pollination just that little bit further. It's all writing, just different ways of saying the same things, I suppose.
The Stone Pony: You’ve been quoted as saying that your album “Green Suede Shoes” “contains some of my best songs.” Would you consider this album as the best introduction to your work, and you can explain what made those tracks such favorites? Do fans who you speak to agree with your assessment of the album, or are there other works they are more likely to express affection for?
LK: I can't remember in what context I made that statement, but it wasn't to
suggest that "Green Suede Shoes" was our best album. I think all of Black
47's albums are very strong and quite different in production values. I
produced that one myself and went for a more stripped-down live sound. I
usually have about 18 to 20 songs ready for recording; each song has to
fight its way on to a cd - hence, there is no filler. Black 47 fans tend to
be fiercely loyal to different cds or songs thereon. As regards which is
the best introduction? I think you can safely pick up whichever of them
you find in a store or at a gig. You'll find strong songs and performances
on all of them. It will be up to you to decide which of the songs become
your particular favorites. Personally, I like them all. Then again, I
never listen to them. As Lou Reed says, "Why should I, I was there."
The Stone Pony: Several of your albums have been recorded in New York City, and you
often refer to your music as capturing the feeling and energy of the
city at a particular point in time. How has that creative energy for
musicians changed, both in the aftermath of September 11, and with the
recent change in the mayor’s office? Have you felt the need to change
your stage show over the past several months, and has your style of
songwriting been affected?
LK: We definitely didn't change to reflect the times. September 11th, of course, has had a personal effect on all of us - friends lost and the psychic shock, too. But, we're synomonous with the city to so many people around the country; in that regard, it behooved us to deliver the Black 47 experience to the audiences in the immediate aftermath of the disaster. We were ambassadors for the city and our job was to show that the spirit of the city would not be subverted and would go on. I still feel that. It was a tremendous tragedy but New York demands that you immediately pick up the pieces and carry on. It definitely added poignancy to many of the songs that were NYC connected. Will it change my method of songwriting? I don't know. I was never one to be influenced by immediate events. They tend to get distilled over a period of time and come out in song or play form years later. That's just my way, but hopefully, one is changing all the time.
The Stone Pony: Two of your albums, 1998’s “Live in New York” and your most recent live release, “On Fire”, were both recorded at the Wetlands, the Manhattan club that sadly closed its doors recently. Can you share any memories about playing at the Wetlands and, in general, what you think is the state of rock music around the New York club scene.
LK:
I would say that rock & roll is at a very low ebb at the moment and perhaps
getting worse by the year. There are a lot of sociological reasons for that
- the biggest being that culture of all sorts is being dictated from the top
down, rather than the more fluent, traditional and rewarding way, from the
bottom up. Right now, television has pretty much conquered all. Most
people get their views from that medium. And that medium is designed to
sell product - to make money. Music has suffered from that. There is no
longer the hope that if you write a good song it will somehow end up on the
radio. Radio is so controlled by money/star making machine that there is
no random choice or chance any more. Butte, Montana has the same radio
formula as New York City. Even college radio is formatted now - the program
directors aware that if they are to get a job in the Big Brother industry,
they had better toe the line and show some results, even at a college level.
Likewise with clubs. Wetlands was a great loss to NYC. It was independent
and liked to see things rise from the bottom up. But as each club closes,
new ones are not opening and, if they are, they are owned by arms of the Big
Brother empire. There appears to be a resurgence of clubs in the
Williamsburg area of Brooklyn, but most rock & roll clubs do not pay enough
money for a musician to make a regular living from. Black 47 has had to
create its own scene around the country - often playing big Irish bars -
just to make a living. So, I regret the demise of Wetlands. I wish I had a
more optimistic picture of the music business, but I'm afraid I don't. It's
not a business I would encourage young people to enter. I wouldn't go into
to it nowadays.
The Stone Pony: Speaking of legendary rock clubs, your upcoming appearance in July marks the return of Black 47 to the Stone Pony stage. Do you have any feelings about the history of the club, and the musical legacy of the Jersey shore area?
LK: I have a great respect for the Jersey Shore scene and the legacy of the Stone Pony. They both harken back to a time when musicians played and musicians got paid - a more working class way of looking at things. There always was that tradition in shore areas, be it Cape Cod, Long Island or the Shore. Bands formed with the idea of trying to make a living from their craft. Bands such as The Rascals out in Hampton Bays, J Geils on the Cape or various precursors of the E Street Band down the Shore. To me, even though I come from a strong songwriting background, it's a bonus if you've learned to play other people's material: for one thing, your own music won't be as circumscribed, if you've learned to ingest and play other people's material. That was how Black 47 began - on a very conscious level - not playing on Bleecker St. or CBGB's but in the working class Irish pubs of Brooklyn, Queens and the Bronx. We would play four sets a night and some of that music had to be covers. We turned that around within a year to playing two 90-minute sets and pretty much all originals - but those four sets a night helped us to hone our chops and knocked all the preciousness out of us. I know a lot of Shore musicians work the same way. And a great club like the Stone Pony has been part of that scene. I always enjoyed coming down to Asbury Park when I first lived in NYC. I recognized it from places like Tramore and Bray in Ireland and, on another level, I felt that I had walked into a Bruce song, so well had he delineated the landscape of his youth.
The Stone Pony: Any pointers you’d like to give the Stone Pony crowd about how to behave at a Black 47 show so you’ll feel right at home? Should the club’s bars stock up on Guinness before you guys arrive?
LK: The crowd should just be itself. We'll bring the songs and the party. If there's guinness there, so much the better. But, I've always said: all Black 47 needs is four walls, a PA and a dancefloor.
The Stone Pony: You’ve said that you have played more than 2,000 shows and “never repeated the same set.” How does a Black 47 set list evolve during the show and what are you, as bandleader, trying to accomplish during a live show? How much is the audience a part of a Black 47 performance and how would you describe the band’s relationship with their audience?
LK: Well, quite often the set for the night in particular might reflect songs that we didn't perform the previous two nights - if I can still remember those nights. I have a number of criteria to work on. First of all, I like to do a couple of songs from each cd. I was a big fan of the Kinks and used see them every year they passed through NYC. It always pissed me off that they would concentrate on the new album they were trying to sell and often just string some of their old songs together in rushed-through medleys. So, I like to give songs from our past a proper rendering - which means exploring them, stretching them and seeing what their relevance is to that night. About 20 minutes before the gig, I write out a list of 14-15 songs in some sequence that seems to make some sense. Then we take that list on stage and see how it's working. We almost always do the first two songs but I may change to something else on the third song. We very rarely do sound checks, so something may be going wrong technically or the audience may need a bit of shaking up, so I quite often diverge from the plan around the third or fourth song. I might also need a mood change myself - who knows. Sometimes, we'll go back to the list or we might just plough on into uncharted territory. The point is: each night is supreme and that's what counts. We have enough and varied types of songs to suit any occasion. And sometimes, I suppose, I might feel the night is going too well and the band, or myself, or the crowd need to be challenged. I might want to upset the flow by trying out a new song. But, to me, that's what rock & roll is about - testing the limits and seeing where it can take you.
The Stone Pony: In early 2001, you released a solo album, “Kilroy Was Here”. What were you able to accomplish artistically on a solo record that was different from a Black 47 release? Do you have plans for additional solo efforts? Are there other projects you hope to pursue in the future aside from the ongoing touring with Black 47?
LK: There were many reasons for doing Kilroy. One was hearing "Time Out of Mind"
by Bob Dylan and realizing that the old fox had whipped us all again - by
going so deep inside himself. I knew that there were certain things that I
wanted to explore and that I didn't need to drag Black 47 along on that
search. I was also hearing different lead instruments, the trumpet and
violin. Some of the songs needed the touch of different instrumentalists.
I had come under the influence of Myles Davis too and remembered that the
trumpet was THE instrument back in the bands in Wexford when I was growing
up. The trumpeters back there were more influenced by Eddie Calvert than
Myles, but I knew that that instrument and the acoustic bass would be the
defining elements in bringing certain feelings to the surface and chiseling
those feelings into songs. It would be an excursion back into childhood and
an effort to sieve through various memories and influences. It would be a
sepia snap-shot of Wexford, as I remembered it - not the Wexford of today -
but a very odd and special place - before all traces of that time and era
are dissolved in modernity. There would be other songs too, like "Spanish
Moon", about the Spanish Civil War and the the poet, Garcia Lorca and even a
cover of Simon & Garfunkel's "Only Livin' Boy in New York" - but all of them
would be tempered by memory.
I'll probably do some more Kilroy shows when I get a chance. It was a
thrill, albeit a chilling one at times, to get back up onstage with just a
guitar and see if you could seduce a crowd into joining you on a two-hour
rummage through your memories. I'm also thinking of doing a project of
Gaelic songs and poems and, perhaps, fusing them with modern influences.
Who knows? I'm writing plays, screenplays and articles all the time. Maybe
one of them will come to fruition first and set me off in another direction.
The Stone Pony: Have you ever had the opportunity to perform in England, or Northern Ireland? If so, can you share some comments about that experience? How were you received? If not, is that an opportunity you would welcome or would you have any reservations about touring there?
LK: I would love to go back to both places. Unfortunately, Black 47 is a big band, everyone likes to be paid well and touring internationally can be so expensive. We were received great in both places. And, again, who knows what the future holds.
Hopefully, the future holds a great show at the club on Friday evening, July 26th. For more information about Black 47's music, their albums (including Larry Kirwan's solo discs) and fascinating lists of websites and reading selection, visit their official web site at www.black47.com.
Now at
asburypark.net:
Springsteen schedules world tour
Bruce Springsteen and the E Street Band will
play 46 shows in 46 cities this year. The tour opens Aug. 7 at Continental
Airlines Arena in East Rutherford, just nine days after Springsteen performs
live in Asbury Park when NBC's Today show visits the city.
Thursday Nights. Bounce Thursday: The Ultimate Dance Party with DJ Matrix and MC BJ, 20-oz. $1 drafts and $1 tube shots all night long, ladies free until 11, $5 with Monmouth University ID, 18 & up for everyone with two forms of ID, doors at 9:30.
